Welcome to our forum

**alexk** · 3 February 2012, 9:31 am

Hello all,

welcome to our own area in GPWA, as staded in my previous post we are very excited to start working with the webmasters here, and believe there is a tremendous opportunity for growth. We are running a new software, meaning there are literally millions of "un-tagged" players out there ready to convert!

We have really tried to do everything right for our webmasters and players. That's why we joined GPWA and APCW, and had AGD approve our terms before we ever launched. We've also partnered with Netrefer because of their strong tracking, reporting and media tools.

LuckyVegas77 offers casino, sportsbook, live dealer action, and two poker rooms. We pay our webmasters up to 35% and offer sub affiliation. Our license is under the new LGA requirements in Malta, which means that player funds are held separately from operational funds! Also, responsible gaming tools and settings are in place and easily accessible for players. And there are protections in place to prevent underage gambling.

We are running on the World Match software, one of the first to be licensed in Malta, and we do NOT accept U.S. traffic. We handle our own support because players are the most valuable asset of our business. Communication channels with our partners are always open and we take feedback seriously.

It was a pleasure to meet some of you in London! I hope you give LuckyVegas77 a try! As I mentioned, there's a tremendous opportunity for the right affiliates.We understand that our webmasters success equals our success, and we will do everything within our power to help our marketing partners!

Looking forward to hearing from all of you,

Regards,

Alex

**alexk** · 3 February 2012, 9:50 am

Hi all,

We are running 50 Free promo for all new affiliates till March 31th.

Simply sign up as an affiliate with LuckyVegas77.com then email your username to [email protected] with “50 free” in the subject line and we will add 50 euros to your affiliate account.

minimum cash-out amount applies, please read affiliate terms and conditions.

**Caruso** · 11 February 2012, 2:16 pm

From the terms:

Security
13. In the event that the casino deems a player to have misused a casino account for the exploitation of promotional offers, without ever demonstrating any degree of risk with personal funds or serious intention to play, this is considered as advantage play and the player’s account may be terminated with immediate effect.

Will the player be paid his/her winnings / full account balance, or will all funds be confiscated?

...1) without ever demonstrating any degree of risk with personal funds or 2) serious intention to play

What do these two statements mean?

**alexk** · 13 February 2012, 3:28 am

Hi Caruso,

In regard to your first question, the player with such an account would be fully refunded his original deposit. I am going to recommend we add a little more explanation to this term so that it's more clear.

The second part of your question requests definitions of legal terms. This should be answered by our team, as I am no lawyer and not qualified to give you the proper answer you deserve.

**Caruso** · 13 February 2012, 8:20 am

I would suggest that rather than bothering any legal teams, you just delete the gobbledegook, because that's what it is. Gobbledegook. Are players expected to contact your team in order to get an answer before they sign up, so they know what they aren't allowed to do? Are they expected to hazard a guess at what "serious intention to play" and "risk to personal funds" means? Do you consider this reasonable modus operandi on the part of an operation that seeks reputability, to carry such ill-defined terms that carry such serious consequences, with no explanation?

the player with such an account would be fully refunded his original deposit

So, scenario: I play in such a way that you "deem" that I've abused the bonus. In other words, I stick religiously to the terms and cash out. You're saying you would not pay my winnings? This is 1) exactly what you told me you would NEVER do, when we spoke in Barcelona, and 2) absolutely disreputable behaviour.

Thing is, Alex, you talk a good talk. You asked me to look at things because you want to be seen to be reputable. Yet once we scratch away at the surface, we see all the same old nonsense I've seen for years, bonus abuse, we'll steal your winnings (what you call "refunding the deposit", LOL), bla bla bla. The same old nonsense that Todd and Anthony campaign against on the affiliate side. In other words: absolutely no different to anywhere else.

Of course, every other casino on this site has the same guff. It's not that you're doing anything worse. The reason I pressed you here was because I was invited to take a look by both you and the APCW boys, so I did - the bar was raised. LV77 is no worse than most other places, but let's not pretend it's any better either. Let's acknowledge that it's just another casino.

**alexk** · 14 February 2012, 7:48 am

Hi Caruso,

Thanks for your feedback, we are having the team review the term and we will update shortly.

**Caruso** · 17 February 2012, 8:07 am

The way to resolve this casino paranoia about evil players who have enough brains to exploit a bonus with weak terms is to not have weak terms. Your terms are hopelessly weak. The solution to weak terms isn't to maintain the right to rob people in order to balance the books, it's to tighten the terms. If that bonus gets picked up by advantage player forums you are going to get slaughtered. Then we know exactly what will happen: bonus abuse, bla bla, players complain, LV77 gets "rogued", bla bla. Seen it all before.

**alexk** · 19 February 2012, 2:59 pm

Originally Posted by Caruso

I would suggest that rather than bothering any legal teams, you just delete the gobbledegook, because that's what it is. Gobbledegook. Are players expected to contact your team in order to get an answer before they sign up, so they know what they aren't allowed to do? Are they expected to hazard a guess at what "serious intention to play" and "risk to personal funds" means? Do you consider this reasonable modus operandi on the part of an operation that seeks reputability, to carry such ill-defined terms that carry such serious consequences, with no explanation?

So, scenario: I play in such a way that you "deem" that I've abused the bonus. In other words, I stick religiously to the terms and cash out. You're saying you would not pay my winnings? This is 1) exactly what you told me you would NEVER do, when we spoke in Barcelona, and 2) absolutely disreputable behaviour.

Thing is, Alex, you talk a good talk. You asked me to look at things because you want to be seen to be reputable. Yet once we scratch away at the surface, we see all the same old nonsense I've seen for years, bonus abuse, we'll steal your winnings (what you call "refunding the deposit", LOL), bla bla bla. The same old nonsense that Todd and Anthony campaign against on the affiliate side. In other words: absolutely no different to anywhere else.

Of course, every other casino on this site has the same guff. It's not that you're doing anything worse. The reason I pressed you here was because I was invited to take a look by both you and the APCW boys, so I did - the bar was raised. LV77 is no worse than most other places, but let's not pretend it's any better either. Let's acknowledge that it's just another casino.

Hi Caruso,
We have taken your feedback and amended the gobbledegook.

**Anthony** · 19 February 2012, 11:28 pm

Alex, thank you for modifying your terms because of feedback received.

Here is a link to the bonus terms:
https://www.luckyvegas77.com/casino/c...and-conditions

Caruso, you know casinos must have terms that protect them from fraud and abuse. LuckyVegas77 has been very accommodating in regards with their terms on both the player and affiliate side. I would judge a program on based on their actions, not speculation.

**Caruso** · 26 February 2012, 8:19 am

Originally Posted by Anthony

Caruso, you know casinos must have terms that protect them from fraud and abuse...I would judge a program on based on their actions, not speculation.

So when a programme says to its affiliates "we reserve the right to close your account if you fail to send XXX players per month", we now wait until they actually DO it, right? AGD wouldn't be over them like a rash as soon as the "predatory" term comes out?

Methinks not. One rule for players, another for affiliates.

And what is "abuse", by the way? I understand "fraud", but I don't know what the official GPWA line is on "abuse". I'd like to find out.

I'll check out the new terms.

**Caruso** · 26 February 2012, 8:52 am

We might as well nail this in one go.

Security

13. In the event that the casino deems a player to have misused a casino account the player’s account may be terminated with immediate effect.
14. In the event that the casino deems a player to have misused a casino promotion, the customer may be barred from receiving further promotional offers at the casino.
15. LuckyVegas77 reserves the right to remove any bonus and bonus winnings from the player’s account, refuse withdrawals and close the account.
16. LuckyVegas77 reserves the right to change these terms at any time.

13. 6 out of 10. Does that include anything actually IN the account? And what does "misuse" mean? "Bonus abuse" is not a valid reason unless the player infringes a specific, defined term, which "bonus abuse" is not.

Right, Anthony?

Try this:

13. In the event that a player does not use the casino account in accordance with the rules, the account may be terminated at the casino's discretion, with immediate effect.

14. Bingo. 10 out of 10.

15. 0 out of 10. Awful. Unjustified. Disreputable. And it completely renders 14 redundant. I could go on.

16. Fair enough.

Replace your 13 with my 13, and bin 15. That wold give you:

Security

13. In the event that a player does not use the casino account in accordance with the rules, the account may be terminated at the casino's discretion, with immediate effect.
14. In the event that the casino deems a player to have misused a casino promotion, the customer may be barred from receiving further promotional offers at the casino.
15. LuckyVegas77 reserves the right to change these terms at any time.

RULE No. 1:

You must not steal winnings that have been accrued where the player has not broken any specific, defined terms. If you have rules that contradict this ("bonus abuse", yada schmada bollocks and BS), you are not operating reputably.

Thanks for removing the stuff I highlighted. It's hard (pretty much impossible, actually) to make that type of bonus unbeatable, but you could make it a lot tighter. As it stands, I'm afraid you do risk getting absolutely pasted as soon as the Big Bad Boys get wind of it.

**alexk** · 7 March 2012, 6:44 am

Originally Posted by Caruso

We might as well nail this in one go.

13. 6 out of 10. Does that include anything actually IN the account? And what does "misuse" mean? "Bonus abuse" is not a valid reason unless the player infringes a specific, defined term, which "bonus abuse" is not.

Right, Anthony?

Try this:

13. In the event that a player does not use the casino account in accordance with the rules, the account may be terminated at the casino's discretion, with immediate effect.

14. Bingo. 10 out of 10.

15. 0 out of 10. Awful. Unjustified. Disreputable. And it completely renders 14 redundant. I could go on.

16. Fair enough.

Replace your 13 with my 13, and bin 15. That wold give you:

RULE No. 1:

You must not steal winnings that have been accrued where the player has not broken any specific, defined terms. If you have rules that contradict this ("bonus abuse", yada schmada bollocks and BS), you are not operating reputably.

Thanks for removing the stuff I highlighted. It's hard (pretty much impossible, actually) to make that type of bonus unbeatable, but you could make it a lot tighter. As it stands, I'm afraid you do risk getting absolutely pasted as soon as the Big Bad Boys get wind of it.

Hi Caruso,

Thank you for your feedback, we will be updating our terms taking under consideration what has been said above.

Thread: Welcome to our forum

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Welcome to our forum

The Following User Says Thank You to Caruso For This Useful Post:

The Following User Says Thank You to Caruso For This Useful Post:

Posting Permissions