Programs who attended LAC & chose not to pay on time - or -Shay-'s list of shame

**-Shay-** · 11 February 2014, 12:07 am

Historically, conference months feature a number of affiliate programs dropping the ball on their "current partners". As we all know, the London Affiliate Conference took place at the beginning of this month.

With LAC behind us, I'm watching like a hawk to see who pays on time & who is late. I'm going to go the extra mile to recognize those programs who attended LAC and chose to miss their "agreed upon payment date". I selected the word "chose" because I believe it is an active choice for programs to live up to their end of the bargain. The can choose to pay on time or they can choose to not pay on time. If you advertise on your affiliate website you pay by the 5th, for example - you should pay by the 5th.

The days of "sorry mate, LAC" earning programs a "free pass" are behind us.

With the above in mind, I'm making myself a list but I'm not sure what to call it. I've narrowed it down to either "Programs who attended LAC & chose not to pay on time" or "-Shay-'s list of shame". My ego prefers the latter but my desire to be accurate leans towards the longer one. Maybe I'll set up a poll sometime in the near future.

Just checking my own payment logs, I see that there are a number of payments due to be received by the 10th of the month. Should I wake up in a few short hours and see that payment has not arrived by the tenth AND that program attended LAC, I will be sure to reward them with inclusion to this ever so exclusive list o' mine.

Likewise, if anyone works with a program who attended LAC and is late with their payment - feel free to ship me a PM and I'll gladly add them.

Some might think that keeping/publishing this list is a bit unprofessional, maybe even a bit childish. To those of you that feel this way, I TOTALLY AGREE. I also agree that being late is unprofessional, so we can let the score card read 1-1 (you were unprofessionally late paying me and/or your "affiliate partners" and I unprofessionally naming and shaming your tardiness). Maybe next conference, the score card can read 0-0, as you'll pay on time & there will no longer be a need for me to continue keeping such silly lists (or I can move to making other silly lists in my effort to right the wrongs of the world 1 list at a time).

**eaton2003** · 11 February 2014, 12:59 am

The majority of affiliate managers process affiliate payment reports within the first few days and at most week of the new month and this happened before the conference as the conference was after 6th of February. After the payment reports have been processed this is then sent to finance to settle as very few if no affiliate managers pay affiliates directly out of the pocket or involved in this process of the month commission checks being paid.

What may of happened is a delay in emails from the affiliate managers who attended LAC and for this they apologise and is completely understandable. However using the conference as an excuse for late pay is no excuse.

**universal4** · 11 February 2014, 1:11 am

How often do affiliate managers experience late or no payments?

Rick
Universal4

**AE-Martyn** · 11 February 2014, 7:22 am

For the record, our affiliate payments are processed by an accounts team who do not attend conferences, mainly because they are socially awkward.

**-Shay-** · 11 February 2014, 7:41 am

Program #1 on the list is Coral Affiliates. They advertise their program as "the new and improved affiliate program from Coral. Based on the testimonials published on their affiliate website, they use the "award winning income access software" and seem very proud of such fact.

One affiliate, who also happens to run his own white label that also utilizes the "Award winning income access software" says in his testimonial

"We have worked with the Coral Affiliates team for sometime now. This well established brand is a household name within the industry and the team behind it is always there to answer any questions or queries we have. Emails are promptly answered and payments correct and on time. We hope to continue to build our fantastic working relationship with Coral for many years to come."

The other affiliate testimonial also states payments are always on time.

The FAQ for the Coral affiliate program gives a processing date of the 10th of the month. Coral's terms and conditions are not exactly written in a straight forward manner, as there's no date provided for payment. However, when an implication is made in the FAQ and supported throughout the site, the FAQ "plays" in my opinion.

Anythony, the Coral rep here at GPWA - had made a statement that he processed payments for Coral before leaving for LAC. The expectation was set that payments would be received on or before the 10th of the month.

As of today, right now, payment from Coral has not been received.

Anthony, what happened to the payment after you ran the report and sent it to finance? Why has finance failed to do their job and pay the affiliates promoting the Coral brand on their websites? There are other affiliates who are wondering the same thing. In fact, the first post made by a new member who just joined is wondering where their payment is. I don't wish to jump to conclusions, but it looks to me like someone somewhere in the Coral organization dropped the ball - and I choose to believe it was due to LAC.

Anthony, I know that you are the type of person that makes the "buck stop" with them. But really, I can see you ran the payment report before leaving for LAC. I'm also quite certain you made a post in the LAC thread that led me to believe that we'd be paid "on time". Please share with us why the "finance team" has not pushed payments out to the Coral Affiliate partners?

For the record, the same thing occurred with Coral during BAC. My partner was informed by a member of the Coral Affiliates team that payments "were delayed due to BAC". Anthony and I spoke about this and he assured me this was not the case. However, here we are... LAC time and no payments. Let's right the ship - please and thank you.

**Anthony-Coral** · 11 February 2014, 9:57 am

Thanks Shay, it is good to have affiliates keeping AM's on their toes!

As I posted earlier here, For January's payment's we actually instituted a slightly new process that should actually speed up the process of payment from when a payments report leaves my inbox marked 'authorised for payment' and when the cash money lands in your accounts. Previously, Coral Interactive (Gibraltar) Ltd generate a payments file from Income Access. This would be approved and be sent to the UK Coral payments team who would split up the report via diff payment method then convert each into a diff report for each method, send it to the relevant department who would then in all likelihood convert it into whatever macro file was required for their software before hitting the transaction button. As you can see; many hands and many stages.

The new system sees me approving the files, Finance Team creating the macro files per payment method and then sending them straight back to me for a final sequence that requires me and a senior manager to 'push the button'

Sounds similar but the crucial difference is that I am motivated to get that button pushed asap and will hunt down one of the senior managers to push it with me because I appreciate that I am the one who gets the emails and forum posts and I'm the one who (hopefully) motivates the trust of affiliates to do business with Coral. The UK Finance Team never get to meet you guys and your payment will be just one of many that they will process in a week with every department head telling them that their payment is the most important one. With the new system the process will start and end with me.

Clearly, with the Affiliate team being at LAC I was unable to chase down the people to send me back the macros and get the joint authorisation completed and I am happy to apologise for that. First time new systems are used there is an almost inevitable adjustment that has to happen but I do believe this is a change for the better.

With regard to the Coral FAQ's I would point out that the wording is slightly different. The full quote is:

Commissions are calculated monthly and we make every effort to process payments by the 10th day of every month for the previous month’s activity.

Whilst its not going to be productive to argue about the semantics of 'make every effort' I would say that this statement genuinely reflects our wish to have our part of the payment process completed by the 10th. In the old system the steps after this were literally out of our hands - in the new system they come back into our hands.

Our official legal terms only state:

4.5 Time of Payment. Referral Commissions will be paid into your nominated account after the end of each month, subject to you earning Referral Commissions in excess of the minimum threshold of ?0 GBP. Subject to sections

They don't even mention a final date at all!

What I think would be a good outcome from this would be to get the legal team to suggest an amendment to 4.5 that does specify a time limit for payment so that's what I will try to secure.

**-Shay-** · 11 February 2014, 10:17 am

Anthony, despite my "twitching" over the payment, your post explaining how things work puts a smile on my face to the point where it was "almost worth" the perception of late payment just to get that in depth explanation.

Thank you very much. I am truly appreciative that you took the time to respond and I do believe you're amongst the best in the business in terms of running affiliate programs.

I also agree that the legal team setting a date in the t&c would be wonderful. I additionally agree that we could litigate all day long the FAQ we were discussing and it would get us nowhere.

**universal4** · 11 February 2014, 1:49 pm

mainly because they are socially awkward.

So that's the department you got promoted from?

Ooops.... /end derail

Rick
Universal4

**TheGooner** · 11 February 2014, 4:31 pm

Typically, full payment in the month following is acceptable to me. That's still far and away better than most areas of business. Cashflow management is the bane of most small businesses.

The last two months we've been in the position to "tick off" payments from ALL our programs by the 20th of the month !
Well done to all AMs for getting to that state!

**casinobonusguy** · 11 February 2014, 11:31 pm

We usually don't know who paid and when until next month when we get the wire receipts downloaded from our bank...

**baldidiot** · 12 February 2014, 4:33 am

Originally Posted by TheGooner

Typically, full payment in the month following is acceptable to me.

Likewise. I don't mind if it's the last day of the month as I don't do my bookkeeping until the next month anyway.

I will follow up with programs that are usually consistent with their payments but are significantly later than normal one month - just to make sure that there are no problems etc.. (eg: if they usually pay by the 5th and I haven't seen anything by the 15th I might ask about it). But I don't really mind so long as it does get paid.

**Voids** · 12 February 2014, 5:14 am

As it's currently not my main source of income, anything in the month after is fine, anything after that is unacceptable. I quite enjoy been sat at work, and my phone telling me I've been paid. Still in the phase where I can't quite believe I'm making money from the internet, no bricks, not mortar, just words and money.

**-Shay-** · 12 February 2014, 6:07 am

Originally Posted by TheGooner

Typically, full payment in the month following is acceptable to me. That's still far and away better than most areas of business. Cashflow management is the bane of most small businesses.

The last two months we've been in the position to "tick off" payments from ALL our programs by the 20th of the month !
Well done to all AMs for getting to that state!

I can appreciate this mindset. However, I think the average & below average sized affiliates have been made to concede a lot in recent history. While this is surely part of the "evolution of the industry", one thing that affiliates should not have to concede is timely payments. Hence why this is one of my hot button issues - and more so around conference times and "scheduled holidays".

**louie.wilson** · 12 February 2014, 6:53 am

I'd be curious to know what does the payment speed represent when it comes to choosing an Aff program. Guys?

**-Shay-** · 12 February 2014, 7:07 am

Originally Posted by louie.wilson

I'd be curious to know what does the payment speed represent when it comes to choosing an Aff program. Guys?

My partner and I consider stated payment speed and how well programs do in keeping with the guidance their own program website provides in their terms & conditions and "self glossing".

When we are considering a new program, I often find myself thinking "the last thing we need is yet another site banging on about having the industry's fastest payouts 'within the first 28 days of the month'", (which clearly is not true, as some programs pay within the first five days).

After I get past this point, providing the DD we conduct on the program "passes", later paying programs require a higher commission in order for me to sign off on them.

It isn't that I'm thinking that I am losing opportunity cost by having to wait 20 days longer to get the money in my pocket. It is more along the lines of my perception. I feel that a program who pays early in the month and "on time" per their t&c guidance has their **** together and is a responsible, financially sound company. The slightly higher commission I require for later paying programs reflects the additional risk I feel we're taking on as well as the cost of headaches that are going to be caused by my involuntary twitching over later payments and subsequent complaining I'm going to do on forums. LOL

**RacingJim** · 12 February 2014, 8:45 am

Originally Posted by TheGooner

Typically, full payment in the month following is acceptable to me. That's still far and away better than most areas of business. Cashflow management is the bane of most small businesses.

The last two months we've been in the position to "tick off" payments from ALL our programs by the 20th of the month !
Well done to all AMs for getting to that state!

Exactly, I think some affiliates don't know maybe what it's like in other small businesses where you are chasing invoices 60-90 days later from companies who then say they have 'cash-flow- issues themselves and will try their best to pay you for the work you've already done.

The affiliate industry definitely has its issues don't get me wrong, but in the main you are working for large companies who are at least never going to spout the 'cash-flow' nonsense at you.

**RacingJim** · 12 February 2014, 8:46 am

I haven't received any payments this month yet by the way!

**-Shay-** · 12 February 2014, 10:49 am

Originally Posted by RacingJim

Exactly, I think some affiliates don't know maybe what it's like in other small businesses where you are chasing invoices 60-90 days later from companies who then say they have 'cash-flow- issues themselves and will try their best to pay you for the work you've already done.

The affiliate industry definitely has its issues don't get me wrong, but in the main you are working for large companies who are at least never going to spout the 'cash-flow' nonsense at you.

Disclaimer : I own or have a stake in at least one of such small business(es) where I am chasing invoices for services rendered 60-90 days later when we should get paid T+30.

We have terms for such things, as going beyond T+30 payment has interest attached to it or a "late fee". In the affiliate industry, there's no such clause. There's nothing "forcing" programs to live up to the terms and conditions that they established. There's nothing to force them to live up to the self-glossing they do when they have their "always pay by the 15th brag" on their website.

Thus, airing this issue and giving them publicity for failing to live up to the terms that THEY put forth - in my opinion, is the only way to keep programs from slipping to T+60 or T+90.

How many programs have gone from paying by the 5th of the month to now paying by the end of the month? How many of these programs gave notice or changed their t&c in advance of withholding payments?

**thebookiesoffers** · 12 February 2014, 11:02 am

Originally Posted by louie.wilson

I'd be curious to know what does the payment speed represent when it comes to choosing an Aff program. Guys?

as long as I get paid the next month i dont care

**TheGooner** · 12 February 2014, 4:07 pm

Originally Posted by casinobonusguy

We usually don't know who paid and when until next month when we get the wire receipts downloaded from our bank...

My main bank has online access to our local accounts and our three forex accounts too. This enables us to see transactional information on a daily basis and transfer / convert currencies between accounts online too. It's a top service.

So thanks to Rewards Affiliates (4th Feb), Ladbrokes (10th Feb), DublinBet (10th Feb) and Victor Chandler (11th Feb) who have already paid this month ! Always good to see the money coming in ...

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