Betting with Bitcoins

**USABRAZIL** · 11 May 2014, 8:24 am

Would love to get feedback from the various GPWA boards about ultra light, casual gambling with Bitcoins instead of credit cards and other payment forms. There's already plenty of dice, slots, roulette and card game sites in the new space but we seem to be alone with our Bitcoin-ScratchTicket game. Thanks!!!

**Scampi** · 11 May 2014, 10:41 am

I saw your last post regarding the scratch cards and it seems a very good idea, the biggest problem I can see you facing is the trust issues with using the currency, and the lack of traffic for the niche.
It might be difficult to make anything worth while.

**USABRAZIL** · 11 May 2014, 11:20 am

Thanks for weighing in with your comments.
Do you mean that in general scratchcards/tickets are a niche or do you consider Bitcoins to be a niche?

**Scampi** · 11 May 2014, 11:35 am

Online scratch-cards are definitely a niche, but people will search them out if they want to play them. You then have to hope that the type of people who own Bitcoins are also the type of people who play, or want to play online scratch-cards, and that is where I think your biggest obstacle lies.
It's defenetely not one of thee easier sides of the gambling market to crack.

**TheGooner** · 11 May 2014, 3:46 pm

You are trading on the intersection of two niches ... those that think bitcoin are an investment / worth holding + those that think scratch cards are fun / profitable gambling.

The first group is probably smaller than when you started as bitcoin has taken a major hit to it's credibility with price fluxuations and failure f Mt Gox and shows no sign of climbing back to it's month on month value increases.

The second group cannot be big either - unless the online variant of scratch cards is far more interactive than the real world version. There's no skill level is there? Just scratch scratch scratch with a coin.

The intersection of these two groups must be small.

Then you run into trust issues - who produces the game - where is it licensed - who checks that the cards are giving back 80%-90% of value back as prize etc. Being in a small niche (or the only one?) causes problems with verification of the gamble.

Finally - as I understand it - your variant of the scratchies runs on other peoples sites. While you might think that good for site owners it sort of distances yourself from your customers and may make authorities think that the OTHER site is actually running the game. This is not good for your own interaction with the customer - it seems a little too hands off.

I may be wrong - and your combination may be perfect for trendy young hipsters with bitcoins stored on their cellphones that just want a quick and simple gambling fix. But I don't know that segment at all - does it exist?

**universal4** · 11 May 2014, 3:52 pm

There are a handful of issues with this.

First of all, scratch cards themselves seem to be more of an add-on to gaming sites and less of a complete package, although I can see this is an ever-growing smaller niche appealing to some markets.

Like GamblingJoe said, in many many markets bitcoins themselves certainly do not exactly lend themselves along the side of great trust.

The US has stated they will NOT be treated as currency but more of an asset, and some other countries do in fact treat them as a currency and "some" countries have come right out and outlawed them.

Until this is more standardized accross the world, I think this will keep the market of bitcoins themselves completely volitile.

Also, bitcoin and much of the hype surrounding them consists of a LOT of mis-information. The majority of the hype/growth in the beginning was based around the anonimity, when in reality it does NOT exist, only the exchanges (Bitcoin Banks) were willing to hide those people who helped in setting up the peer-to-peer exchange.

I think in order for bitcoin to truly become mainstream, the exchanges/wallets are just gonna have to follow the KYC rules and remove the total farce about complete anonimity.

This could possibly mean a complete overhaul of the way the exchanges and wallet system work, or not, but I do think changes are needed. In my opinion without changes, bitcoin is destined to reamin much higher in the anarchists eyes, and just not ready for mainstream acceptance.

Another portion of the mis-information stems from a portion of the bitcoin backers as saying it was never intended as a currency and only a payment system. First this is not true as ALL backers in the early days promoted it as the future of currency, and in fact if it truly was only meant to be a payment system, a single bitcoin would never had any kind of value on it's own whether that value was only percieved or not, and it certainly would never have been traded as an asset or commoditity as it is today.

Besides, as far as "payment systems" go, we already have credit and debit cards, and PayPal is a true leader in the industry, so much so that even Google dropped their wallet system as they did not want to compete with PayPal on that scale. And other close to worldwide systems exist such as Neteller, MoneyBookers etc, and they have not gained total acceptance from various governments either.

Rick
Universal4

**universal4** · 11 May 2014, 3:56 pm

Good points Gooner, (we were posting at the same time)

I do wonder however though, on the point about authorities thinking the game is being run, say on a US hosted site, I wonder if a disclaimer alone is enough or..... hmm there have been reports over the years as to white-label owners having issues with authorities over the same kinds of problems.

Rick
Universal4

**USABRAZIL** · 12 May 2014, 8:38 am

Gents thanks for all of your comments. We have some philosophical differences but that's what forums are all about. What will or will not happen with Bitcoins and in particular in the gambling space reminds me of how the print media industry reacted to online media. Each side had very good arguments defending their position but ultimately it was the consumers who shifted the scales of balance. The consumers didn't care about any of the arguments... they just consume content. Online media met their needs more than print media. I do believe those same consumers will embrace digital currencies en masse as a preferred online payment distribution platform and that has nothing to do with currency traders. There's those who buy certain currencies as a hedge against other asset classes. I don't think online or offline gamblers think of cash or their credit cards as a financial hedge instrument and instead think of it as legal tender. I tend not to worry about what the price of a Bitcoin will be tomorrow or in the future....... just as I don't spend any time wondering about the price of Gold or Silver.... but maybe I should. Informed consumers understand the value of USD, Euro, GBP, BTC, etc. Yes, Bitcoins has had its growing pains just as the credit card industry had its before there were companies like VeriFone and others. Again your comments are well received.

**universal4** · 12 May 2014, 1:19 pm

Yes, but you should compare bitcoins to other assets, not credit cards.

You can compare neteller, ewallet express, moneybookers and pay pal to credit cards, and you can compare bitcoins to gold, silver and tulips.

I am a little surprised that if you are such an avid bitcoin enthusiast, that you would state you never follow their pricing.

Rick
Universal4

**USABRAZIL** · 12 May 2014, 1:50 pm

I misspoke for what I should have said is that I'm aware of the daily price of a BTC because its always in my peripheral view. The volatility of its price hasn't made a difference with our players. We have players who bet on a single game a fraction of a BTC (therein lies one of the many advantages of a digital currency) to those who bet more than a BTC. We simply provide the environment and keep the house edge percentage.

**USABRAZIL** · 12 May 2014, 2:19 pm

Thought you might like to see the daily comparison of Bitcoins measured by transactions and volume https://www.coinometrics.com/bitcoin/btix
Interpretation of the data is subjective by ones perceptions.

Jim
USABRAZIL

**universal4** · 12 May 2014, 3:37 pm

Not really, whenever I am interested in the bitcoin pricing I usually check bitcoincharts.

That page you listed is trying to "compare" bitcoin to visa and mastercard, and if daily trading volume should affect gambling, gold bullion has a daily average around $13.9 billion, yet I would guess very few casinos deal in bullion.

And you are correct that a more informed consumer is better and they understand the value of the dollar and the euro, and my guess is more of them have a better handle on the value of an ounce of gold then they do about a bitcoin.

Rick
Universal4

**Virtual Marketing** · 3 November 2014, 10:07 pm

Can you share volumes and some numbers on the platform ?

**ocreditor** · 30 December 2014, 3:36 am

stay away from bitcoin - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirh...nks-hes-wrong/

**TheGooner** · 30 December 2014, 4:12 am

That Forbes article was written in March 2014 - when Bitcoin was approx USD $600 each.
Bitcoin is now around USD $310 each - having started the year at around USD $1000.

**ocreditor** · 30 December 2014, 5:02 am

Originally Posted by TheGooner

That Forbes article was written in March 2014 - when Bitcoin was approx USD $600 each.
Bitcoin is now around USD $310 each - having started the year at around USD $1000.

I believe the value dropping from a reason, but I think Warren Buffet is referring to the risk of investment in the currency for the long term

**Virtual Marketing** · 26 January 2015, 7:43 pm

Originally Posted by ocreditor

I believe the value dropping from a reason, but I think Warren Buffet is referring to the risk of investment in the currency for the long term

Guys, its here to stay whenever the price is $1000 or $200 for one BTC

**TheGooner** · 26 January 2015, 8:52 pm

Is it? Which one? BitCoin? LiteCoin? DogeCoin?
Fan-boys of bitcoin often talk about limited supply - but ignore the many other coins that spring up ...

BitCoin and it's b@st@rd offspring are cryptographic curiosities ...
75% of the total volume is traded by Chinese who can't get out of the Yuan any other way ...
That value of bitcoin goes where the Chinese go ... if they bail then the coin fails.

I'm agnostic about bitcoin - I don't believe it's a revolution or a solution to a world currency - but it IS a "thing"
It MIGHT survive and I'm keen to watch and find out - but I don't want buy in at current prices of $250 (down $50 so far this year).

**DanHorvat** · 26 January 2015, 11:52 pm

theGlobe.com just called. Said nothing lasts forever.

**edgarf76** · 27 January 2015, 12:11 am

I think once people realize it is not anonymous the value of Bitcoin will drop dramatically. IMO on Bitcoin should equal one dollar or something reasonable. The prices are nuts

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