Aff Program shows how to delete cookies?!

**yervand** · 14 July 2010, 9:59 am

I don't want to be unfair, because I may be wrong, which is why I didnt post the name of the program in the subject matter.

I'm writing because I came across the Aff program of ACF-webmaster, and in looking the marketing materials, I came across something I didnt like at all and I don't know if anybody else has reported this -

In the Flash Demos, it has there videos that explain the user (or player) how to delete their cookies! These videos are part of group of other videos on "How to.." which I think are quite useful as tools. But when I asked if I could not include these videos, they tell me they cannot be removed! And when I ask them when they will remove them, they don't give me a straight answer which is odd.

My answer to the aff manager is that they are actually teaching their players, through OUR SITES, how to delete OUR POTENTIAL EARNINGS, by eliminating the cookies with our ID's.

This obviously doesnt seem fair to the affiliate who kicks his butt to promote their products, and these guys are teaching the users how to delete the trackers. That's like a double slap in the face.

Anyway, I may be wrong in all this, if I am, my apologies to the ACF. If I am right, well, then whoever is using their products, should think twice about promoting them.

**Anthony** · 14 July 2010, 11:47 am

I would like to see the videos. Can someone send me a link to them.

**universal4** · 14 July 2010, 11:50 am

I certainly do not like hearing this either.

I would not promote anyone that tagught visitors how to take money out of my pocket...

Rick
Universal4

**yervand** · 14 July 2010, 12:01 pm

Here is the link, it's under the flash demos at the bottom of page-

https://www.acf-webmaster.com/sys/too...lash&sb=Search

**arkyt** · 14 July 2010, 12:14 pm

Originally Posted by yervand

Here is the link, it's under the flash demos at the bottom of page-

https://www.acf-webmaster.com/sys/too...lash&sb=Search

GPWA approved this outfit - surely there must be a valid reason why they would take the time to create a special video to teach people to remove cookies.

**universal4** · 14 July 2010, 1:26 pm

There is only ONE reason to teach visitors to remove cookies, and no excuse can be given that is affiliate friendly in any way shape or form.

I am considering a new tagline....

"If an affiliate program is not small affiliate friendly (especially small US Affiliate), then they are NOT Affiliate Friendly!"

Rick
Universal4

**LuckyBettors - Jamie** · 20 July 2010, 5:31 pm

I have had the same questions about RTG casinos. I had actually brought up with one about cookies being deleted, and would it remove that player from my affiliate Tag. I was told NO.

But if affiliate programs work on tracking with cookies, then yes we won't get credit for that player. Maybe I am wrong as well, but thats the way I see it.

I won't be promoting ACF based on what I have read today!

**gocasinos** · 20 July 2010, 5:34 pm

This sort of stuff is very disheartening for newbie webmasters like me. Im still learning about this industry and some of the stuff I have discovered already is stuff I would rather not know

Thanks for bringing this up as this is certainly an outfit I will not be affiliating with. ACF webmaster have already tried to approach me but luckily they keep writing to me in French so I have no clue what they are talking about!

**CityGuard** · 21 July 2010, 12:32 am

Two posts from this thread began a discussion on a separate topic. In order to ensure that both topics are able to be discussed fully I have moved those posts into their own thread, available at https://www.dietistaktuellt.com/forum/concerns-...ns-190640.html. I have linked to this original thread from the second discussion.

**CityGuard** · 21 July 2010, 1:02 am

Originally Posted by yervand

I may be wrong in all this

I was able to successfully replicate the problem you are reporting. I installed the demonstration videos on a test site and the videos listed in the "Diver" section are all appearing in that test. I was able to successfully turn on and off other sections, but in the installation code I was provided there is no apparent option for turning off the "Diver" video listings if you are using their video selection list.

To save time for others who want to check this out, the "Diver" section I am referring to is the headline that use for various technical how-to videos. The section includes:
1. Deactivate pop-up blockers in Internet Explorer
2. Install Flash Player 9.0
3. Make a screenshot
4. Delete cookies in Mozilla Firefox
5. Delete cookies in Internet Explorer
6. Uninstall Microsoft antivirus
7. Deactivate pop-up blockers in Mozilla Firefox

This seems very strange to include alongside other video options like the walkthroughs of the deposit process. The only reason I could think these would be available is perhaps for people focused on recruiting sub-affiliates and wanting to offer some webmaster advice, but I would think that these would be able to be used selectively in the same manner that the affiliate could use all Casino Riva videos without using the PokerGains videos, or vise versa. In the context of existing within a section of other technical how-to videos, I wouldn't assume that this reflects malice. I will contact their forum representative to request they provide an option to turn off the "Diver" videos, or alternatively that they remove the cookie-related videos from that section.

Originally Posted by Gambling Resort

I have had the same questions about RTG casinos. I had actually brought up with one about cookies being deleted, and would it remove that player from my affiliate Tag. I was told NO.

But if affiliate programs work on tracking with cookies, then yes we won't get credit for that player. Maybe I am wrong as well, but thats the way I see it.

I don't know the particulars for ACF Webmaster, but what you were previously told is correct that some affiliate programs are able to accurately credit the referral even after cookies have been deleted. The reason for this is that cookie tracking is sometimes only one of multiple tracking methods used.

Two other common forms of tracking are flash cookies and IP tracking. Flash cookies are stored differently than text cookies (which are what is typically being referred to when people talk about cookies). The typical clearing process most people think of when talking about deleting cookies (including the walk-through in the video) does not remove flash cookies. In other cases sites will note an association between an IP address and the tracking ID as soon as a user clicks through. This means that if the person subsequently deletes cookies (both flash and txt) that the player could still be correctly credited to an account. And once the software is downloaded, it is common for the affiliate tracker to be embedded directly in the casino software's .exe file, meaning that it is tracked as soon as the download occurs rather than requiring registration.

Not every program has the system in place to track through multiple ways. But I will check with ACF Webmaster to hear what tracking technology they use and whether it extends beyond the traditional text cookies.

**CityGuard** · 21 July 2010, 1:09 am

I've moved this thread into the ACF Webmaster section so that it can be more easily found by people researching the program and to make sure the program receives email alerts when new posts are added here.

**CityGuard** · 21 July 2010, 4:10 am

To update this:

I had a brief Skype chat with a new ACF-Webmaster forum representative a moment ago. She wasn't able to provide any new information when we spoke because this was the first time she had heard of the issues being raised, but she will be bringing it up with the technical department. I'll let everyone know when I hear more.

**yervand** · 21 July 2010, 6:53 am

Hey, thanks for the investigation on the matter.

Hopefully, soon, these little subtleties from aff programs will come to surface and it will be a fair ballgame for all one day...

**dhayman** · 21 July 2010, 7:29 am

This sort of unethical behavior has been going on for years, in a myriad of ways. Yes, it is wrong, but every industry has charlatans.

**yervand** · 21 July 2010, 4:42 pm

But like I've said before, we believe in these programs because they are listed here (they pay to be listed here, remember), but then, on the other hand, these programs don't play by the rules, or they make up the rules as they go along.

Unfortunately, I don't things are gonna get much better until the US approves online gaming.

**FanDuel_Wade** · 22 July 2010, 9:07 am

wow - this is disturbing stuff.

Sends the message "please bust your ass to send us traffic... then we'll quietly teach your referrals how to ace you out of the commission equation and reap higher profitability"

Not a good plan at all - thanks for bringing this one up.

**yervand** · 22 July 2010, 5:50 pm

I am sure if we all looked closer at a lot of aff programs (maybe "a lot" can be overstating"), but anyhow, there would be a lot more of these "hidden bugs" that we as affiliates, don't always spot.

For instance, some programs, when you copy code for a banner or similar, you get this crazy looking code, that supposedly, has you tracker embedded in them. Is it really embedded in there??

Whereas other programs have your campaign name, or aff code, that you can see with your eyes, and you know it's there. Those are the programs's I trust most.

**CityGuard** · 22 July 2010, 9:43 pm

I've heard back and they have removed the video. They indicated that this was intended to be for affiliates to guide them on how to test the tracking, rather than meant to be included in the player videos. Here is what my contact said: "These videos were deleted for each language : FR, EN, ES, IT and GE. We did not know it would cause an issue. Our affiliates like to test affiliate's tracker (their own tracker when they install banners) so to help the beginner's we created a video."

In terms of the second question, whether they add more layers of tracking on top of the text cookies (such as IP tracking or flash cookies), the contact indicated she wasn't positive but would have an answer to that soon.

**arkyt** · 23 July 2010, 8:20 am

Originally Posted by yervand

I am sure if we all looked closer at a lot of aff programs (maybe "a lot" can be overstating"), but anyhow, there would be a lot more of these "hidden bugs" that we as affiliates, don't always spot.

I recall years back that numerous programs used non-expiring cookies and there were affiliates loading 1x1 iframes/images etc depositing cookies everywhere and consequently taking credit for players sent my other affiliates.

I have zero doubt that there are many opportunist who are still to this day preying upon others and getting by with it. Most of the affiliate programs dont care where the players come from as long as they come.

**yervand** · 23 July 2010, 9:45 am

It's good to know that as an affiliate, we are not alone, but together, and through this forum can act as a union against "smelly" aff program tricks.

I think though that any online aff program that wants to do these tricks are only shooting themselves in the foot, because sooner or later they will creep out of the woodwork.

And just like in life, "it takes years to build trust and goodwill, and only seconds to lose it...."

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